tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post7481729140075255709..comments2023-12-02T09:37:08.472-05:00Comments on Autism Jabberwocky: Aspie Bigotry at Autism Speaks BlogM.J.http://www.blogger.com/profile/12033918835169823548noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-42160675433305640242011-05-16T22:12:59.498-04:002011-05-16T22:12:59.498-04:00Hi Robyn,
It is not necessarily true that people ...Hi Robyn,<br /><br />It is not necessarily true that people with a diagnosis of Asperger's have "strong verbal skills". The actual diagnostic criteria is no delay in functional communication. You could just as easily see this same lack of delay in a child with pdd-nos. And just because something is delayed doesn't mean that it doesn't develop as the person gets older. I believe there a some number of adults with autism who were less than verbal as a child but can fully talk as an adult.<br /><br />The other difference with Asperger's is that the person has to be of at least normal intelligence. But that is not unique to Asperger's either - people with autism and pdd-nos can both have normal to above normal intelligence. (Although in classic autism there is a high degree of ID but whether that has to do with actual intelligence or lack of ability to understand and communicate is up for debate).<br /><br />Other than that, there are no real differences between Asperger's and the other types of autism. Or at least not in the diagnostic criteria.<br /><br />One other point, and this is just be nitpicking as a parent, just because a person with autism can't speak or doesn't speak well doesn't mean that they are severe. Two of my daughters can barely speak but they are much more social and much less rigid than other children with autism. They make good eye contact and they are very affectionate. If anything, they are on the moderate to milder side of autism - in spite of their problems expressing themselves.M.J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12033918835169823548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-73091827927945179012011-05-16T21:55:57.666-04:002011-05-16T21:55:57.666-04:00Anonymous,
I can understand what you are saying b...Anonymous,<br /><br />I can understand what you are saying but that doesn't change the underlying message. The underlying message is that the author does not want to be lumped in with people who have autism. <br /><br />I should remind you that since Asperger's is currently considered a form of autism that what the real message is that the author is arguing for separation - because she doesn't want to be associated with "them".<br /><br />That might not have been the author's intent but that is certainly what she said. And as someone who is advocating for the rights of the disabled, she really should have known better. If what you want is to be accepted then what you need to do is demonstrate that in your words and actions. <br /><br />You do not point at those who are more severely effected by the same condition and ask not to be associated with them.<br /><br />I'm sorry, but as a parent of three of those "other" children, I take offense at the idea that it would somehow be degrading for people with Asperger's to be associated with them. My children and I certainly take enough abuse from the general public and we certainly don't need to hear it from other people on the spectrum.M.J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12033918835169823548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-48241661682051046102011-05-16T21:40:43.705-04:002011-05-16T21:40:43.705-04:00MJ, you say that the article says, "We don...MJ, you say that the article says, "We don't want to be associated with them," and that statement might sound harsh initially. But, I think the author has legitimate reasons for "not wanting to be associated with them." I think it's reasonable to be concerned about being given a label, like "autism," that carries negative connotations because stereotypes have far-reaching consequences, like being denied opportunities and unemployment, as the author alluded to. Also, the statement that people with Asperger's have strong verbal skills, while autistics don't is a fact, not an insult. Some forms of autism can be so severe that people never learn to speak, but that's never the case for people with Asperger's. Therefore, it's simply illogical to put them in the same category. That DOESN'T mean that people with Asperger's are better than autistics. It just means we're different. I thought this article was just rational, not offensive.Robynnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-86053327955005041782011-05-16T19:58:35.479-04:002011-05-16T19:58:35.479-04:00I understand where you're coming from, MJ. But...I understand where you're coming from, MJ. But, if you follow the structure of her thesis, you'll see what she meant by "an insult and a mockery."<br />"This proposal will do more harm than good because it will further perpetuate stereotypes and misunderstandings about Asperger’s, it will serve as an insult and a mockery to those who are severely affected by Asperger’s, it will cause further confusion and ambiguity in diagnostics, and it will attack the identity in which many Aspies, like me, take pride."<br />That's her thesis statement. Each phrase of the thesis is an introductory phrase leading to a body paragraph. The phrase "it will further perpetuate stereotypes and misunderstandings about Asperger’s" introduces the paragraph that starts with this sentence, "First of all, many Aspies already suffer enough from the negative stigma and stereotypes society holds against them." The phrase "an insult and a mockery" leads to the paragraph "Additionally, I also find the DSM-V proposal to be an act of insensitivity toward the adversity people with Asperger’s encounter." In other words, the DSM-V proposal to call Asperger's a "mild form of autism" is an "insult and a mockery" to those "SEVERELY" (note my emphasis on that word) affected by Asperger's because Asperger's is NOT mild. It makes it sound like Asperger's is easy to live with when it's NOT. As an Aspie myself, I completely with that assertion. Like the author, I also get offended when Asperger's is called, "a mild form of autism" because there's nothing mild about the adversity we Aspies endure. Maybe the author shouldn't have used the language "an insult and a mockey," but that statement wasn't intended to put down autistic people. It just meant to say that the DSM-V proposal downplays the seriousness of the hardships Aspies go through. I hope that makes sense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-3134549637169151192011-05-16T18:23:33.763-04:002011-05-16T18:23:33.763-04:00Anonymous,
I went back and reread the original po...Anonymous,<br /><br />I went back and reread the original post and I have to say that I still disagree with you. The entire piece can basically be summed up as "we don't want to be associated with them".<br /><br />It doesn't really matter that some of the comments are phrased as "the stereotype is this" because, inevitably, the next statement is "and we don't want to be grouped in with that". <br /><br />If the author felt that the stereotypes were unfair then she should have said that. She should not have presented the stereotypes and then said (or implied) that while other people with autism might be that like, aspies aren't.<br /><br />And actually, the phrase that I found to be very offensive was this one - <br /><br />"This proposal will do more harm than good because it will further perpetuate stereotypes and misunderstandings about Asperger’s, it will serve as an insult and a mockery to those who are severely affected by Asperger’s"<br /> <br />That statement alone makes my entire point and renders all of yours about "she never said that" moot. She said, in plain text, that grouping people Asperger's in with people with autism would be "an insult" and a "mockery" to those with Asperger's.M.J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12033918835169823548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-2129992861139861682011-05-16T14:49:33.491-04:002011-05-16T14:49:33.491-04:00By the way, I strongly encourage you to read Corde...By the way, I strongly encourage you to read Cordelia's comment, the last comment, on the original blog post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-58126884810969914102011-05-16T14:43:17.573-04:002011-05-16T14:43:17.573-04:00I think a lot of people misunderstood what the aut...I think a lot of people misunderstood what the author was trying to say. If they simply read what the article PLAINLY says, they would realize that there’s nothing offensive about it. This statement seemed to generate a lot of anger, “The label of Asperger’s at least gives observers the impression of intelligence and ability. But, when most people think of “autism,” they think of someone who should be institutionalized and cannot live independently. Therefore, if people with Asperger’s are merged under the autistic group, brilliantly gifted and capable individuals could be unfairly stereotyped as incapable and unprofitable.” But, the author DID NOT say she agreed with that stereotype, she simply said that it existed. How is stating that a stereotype exists the same thing as agreeing with it? It’s not! She already thinks it’s unfortunate that people with autism are unfairly stereotyped and she just doesn’t want those stereotypes extended to people with Asperger’s. What’s so offensive about that?<br />“Imagine how much worse this stereotyping will get when people with Asperger’s are placed under the same category as severely autistic people who never learn to speak, who never learn to independently tie their shoes or brush their teeth, and who need assistance with every aspect of their life.”<br />This is NOT a stereotype of autistic people. If you just read the sentence carefully, you should notice that she didn’t say ALL autistic people never learn to do these things. She said SEVERELY autistic people never learn to do these things. She recognizes that Autism has a wide spectrum. All she’s saying is that if people with Asperger’s are grouped with the autistic people on the SEVERE END of the spectrum, society might wrongly assume that people with Asperger’s suffer from the same infirmities as people on the SEVERE END of the autistic spectrum.<br />“I don’t think it makes sense or does any good to put a strongly verbal Aspie with an advanced vocabulary in the same category as autism when some autistics never learn to speak.”<br />Again, she didn’t say ALL autistic people never learn to speak. She said specifically SOME autistic people never learn to speak. Big difference!<br /><br />I honestly don’t understand how people can come to these false conclusions about the author’s intentions, when the BASIC TEXT says that the author clearly had good intentions and DID NOT stereotype or demonize autistic people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-2928607675398412372010-10-06T10:34:36.885-04:002010-10-06T10:34:36.885-04:00Lovely, lofty, engaging - but let's cut to the...Lovely, lofty, engaging - but let's cut to the chase here: get rid of the cursed gate-keepers! Really!From the system according to it's abilities, to the person according to their needs, to paraphrase. <br /><br />Yeah, I get disgusted because -people think my son doesn't need extensive support because their experience is limited to f/k/a "HFA' or "Aspie" populations. . . -the other side: people who deny support to those who really need it because of verbal ability, eg.<br /><br />This is reminding me of the framentation various social movements went through in the 80's: for example, Women's Lib v. divorcee's rights, v. lesbian rights... well, we can hang together, or they'll hang us one by one.MyTruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11154077260562417400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-50984054974071976692010-09-30T11:48:16.000-04:002010-09-30T11:48:16.000-04:00Are you being deliberatly misunderstanding here. C...Are you being deliberatly misunderstanding here. Caring for anyone is tough, no matter what the cause.<br /><br />My mother had severe rheumatoid arthritis, asthma and COPD, the combination of which killed her eventually, but that was not till after she had not survived a burst appendix with peritonitis, septicemia and cervical cancer at one time or another. A tough lady who needed a lot of care, nursing care from me and she would have died a lot sooner without it.<br /><br />Of course the ability to care for someone else renders on automatically non autistic, rather like marrying or doing a PhD doesn't it? <br /><br />If I'd have got proper support during those years instead of having to support someone else, who knows what I might have become, I'm making up for lost time.Larry Arnold PhD FRSAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05074432718592268750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-12473000619557331222010-09-29T18:54:48.656-04:002010-09-29T18:54:48.656-04:00pD, It looks like a few of your earlier comments f...pD, It looks like a few of your earlier comments from yesterday got stuck in blogger's wonderful spam filter. I released them and they should have appeared by now. <br /><br />Sorry about that.M.J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12033918835169823548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-84416616639465545662010-09-29T18:07:48.219-04:002010-09-29T18:07:48.219-04:00So your mother had autism then?So your mother had autism then?M.J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12033918835169823548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-79071217366068900372010-09-29T14:16:07.319-04:002010-09-29T14:16:07.319-04:00MJ you really are missing the point,
I did care ...MJ you really are missing the point, <br /><br />I did care for my mother 24/7, there was no work for me to go to in the morning, that was my work and I lived on the premises.<br /><br />It is actually hard for me to recall now at this distance just how tough that was, nowadays I cope with rather different stresses.<br /><br />Resistance to change is not a feature of the autistic spectrum that is doled out to one "colour" only, it exists across the whole range, and it was adapting to the major change in my life without my mother that led eventually to my diagnosis.Larry Arnold PhD FRSAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05074432718592268750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-17080797556468708802010-09-29T08:32:56.699-04:002010-09-29T08:32:56.699-04:00MJ, Try living with an autistic brain for more tha...MJ, Try living with an autistic brain for more than 40 years and you'll know what woe is.Socrateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12525104555859213125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-41881150656565566322010-09-29T08:15:04.235-04:002010-09-29T08:15:04.235-04:00I think you are still missing part of the point. ...I think you are still missing part of the point. It is one thing to take care of people as a job, you eventually will get to go home and get a break. It is something else entirely when you live it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for years and years.<br /><br />Talk to me about experience when you have been up all night dealing with children unable to sleep and unhappy about it. Then go to work the next day with less than an hour sleep only to have to come home and do it again. Now repeat that everyday for 3 or 4 weeks straight.<br /><br />Regardless, we all have experiences with autism, and trying to claim the high grond because yours are more profound is just a little silly.<br /><br />And none of this is really relevant to the idea that there are different functioning levels in people with autism.M.J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12033918835169823548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-48951844066992097432010-09-29T05:26:10.435-04:002010-09-29T05:26:10.435-04:00I'm not talking about autism when I talk about...I'm not talking about autism when I talk about experience I am talking about the experience of spending most of my adult life caring for severely physically disabled relative.<br /><br />I think when people try and lecture me how hard it is to be a parent of a child with x, y, or Z they should realise that the challenges of care are challenges of care, and you can spend more time looking after a parent than most parent's will spend looking after there children.<br /><br />I'm not just talking about pushing her around in a wheelchair, I am talking about every physical activity from morning to well into the early hours of the next morning.<br /><br />During that time most of my social contact was with other disabled people with a variety of different impairments in what is loosely termed the disabled peoples movement. Like I say, that is where I get my pride from, it's a different world and a different set of attitudes and one the autism world has a lot to learn from.<br /><br />As for meltdowns, well I have had to handle more than one at once,and I am talking fully grown adults here, I do know how one person's sensitivities can be set off by another's rituals and it all has a certain Shakesperian inevitability in the denouement.<br /><br />Of course you have to experience one yourself to understand what it does to you. Do you think I have never had spectacular and public meltdowns, to the extent that the cops have been called? It's something I have had to live with, and also to live down as someone who is all very well aware of the consequences afterward.Larry Arnold PhD FRSAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05074432718592268750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-22782715212959406042010-09-28T23:20:42.917-04:002010-09-28T23:20:42.917-04:00Author, Socrates -
Before you two get up on your ...Author, Socrates -<br /><br />Before you two get up on your high horses about your life with disabilities and the challenged and perspective that it brings, please remember that other people have experience with autism as well. Yes, having a disability can make life more challenging and having bad experiences with clinicians that don't understand you can be a pain in the ass.<br /><br />Now try being a parent to three children on the spectrum. I have had almost 16 cumulative years of experience with autism, concentrated down into 6 years and have the grey hair to prove it.<br /><br />You haven't seen an autistic meltdown until you have seen three of them going at once, all feeding into each other. And if you think managing one set of sensory aversions and rigidities is challenging, try balancing out three conflicting sets of them at once. You get it wrong and meltdown city here you come. <br /><br />If you think that advocating for your own needs with medical professionals who won't listen is bad , try it on behalf of your children. Now it isn't just your future that is affected, but you your children's future. I have to deal with medical professionals interacting with my children on a daily basis. I am lucky in that most of the team working with my children are knowledgeable and know what they are doing. <br /><br />But even still, my wife and I need to be experts because we are the ones who have to call the shots and advocate for what our children need - sometimes in direct opposition to what the "experts" think is best. Having to do that takes parental responsibility to a whole new level.<br /><br />So please spare me the "you don't understand" riff because I really don't think that you can understand what it is like to be a parent to children with moderate autism. <br /><br />We all have lives in which we have had to deal with autism and we are all entitled to have our own opinions about what we think about it. Just because you have a certain experience does not mean that your opinion is anymore correct that anyone else's.M.J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12033918835169823548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-39515186353015583362010-09-28T19:38:44.002-04:002010-09-28T19:38:44.002-04:00Heaven's To Betsy! pD.,
I'm a bona-fide f...Heaven's To Betsy! pD.,<br /><br />I'm a bona-fide freak-of-nature. A slow-boy with am 100,000 word vocabulary. I should be in a home. Deal with it.Socrateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12525104555859213125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-39612986454351768782010-09-28T19:32:32.269-04:002010-09-28T19:32:32.269-04:00Hi Socrates -
I have been examined/humiliated/ig...Hi Socrates - <br /><br /><i>I have been examined/humiliated/ignored by the finest of Cambridge's autism clinical fuck-wits.</i><br /><br />I can remember reading one of your earliest blog postings, it involved the valkyrie and a highly attractive doctor, if I remember correctly. But this doesn't speak towards much other than the failings of people. And again, <i>you understand the concepts of humliation, and being ignored</i>. <br /><br />It took me a long, long time to grasp the idea that my son didn't understand this level of abstract conceptualization. Once I came to this realization, however, my perceptions changed quite a bit.<br /><br />I'm still not sure if you understand the degree to which this colors every aspect of living; the inability to understand abstract concepts. <br /><br />To my mind, it is the most difficult thing for my son, for without that ability, entire layers of thought are unavailable. You understand the concept of the past, or the future, the idea that in three days you have an appointment to be ignored by a psychiatrist, you understand that a bus costs less money than a taxi, that money can be exchanged for items and a million other concepts that extend from the concrete. <br /><br /><i>In their infinite and ineffable wisdom they have placed me in the same bucket/dustbin/dumpster as people like your son.</i><br /><br />Again, this speaks to my mind towards the problems with the DSM, and I have no love for psychiatrists. I'm not sure on your point here, honestly. Do you think this is a good thing, a bad thing, or just that the folks at Cambridge aren't smart? <br /><br /> <br /><i>This is not an "orders of magnitude" difference. It is just next door on a linear scale.</i><br /><br />If you think that the inability to discern that the number fouris 'more' than the number one is next door towards the ability to be concerned about 'confabulation of the societally ignorant psychiatrists', I guess we just aren't going to see eye to eye on this. <br /><br />- pDpassionlessDronehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05398721312156704738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-17119668350209333122010-09-28T19:03:30.152-04:002010-09-28T19:03:30.152-04:00pD.,
"are orders of magnitude less profound&...pD.,<br /><br /><i>"are orders of magnitude less profound"</i>.<br /><br />*sigh* I have been examined/humiliated/ignored by the finest of Cambridge's autism clinical fuck-wits.<br /><br />In their infinite and ineffable wisdom they have placed me in the same bucket/dustbin/dumpster as people like your son.<br /><br />This is not an <i>"orders of magnitude"</i> difference. It is just next door on a linear scale.Socrateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12525104555859213125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-88973470442112092332010-09-28T19:03:12.175-04:002010-09-28T19:03:12.175-04:00pD.,
"are orders of magnitude less profound&...pD.,<br /><br /><i>"are orders of magnitude less profound"</i>.<br /><br />*sigh* I have been examined/humiliated/ignored by the finest of Cambridge's autism clinical fuck-wits.<br /><br />In their infinite and ineffable wisdom they have placed me in the same bucket/dustbin/dumpster as people like your son.<br /><br />This is not an <i>"orders of magnitude"</i> difference. It is just next door on a linear scale.Socrateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12525104555859213125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-50629111103443571522010-09-28T18:43:59.763-04:002010-09-28T18:43:59.763-04:00Hi Socrates -
pD, your ignorance concerning the ...Hi Socrates - <br /><br /><i>pD, your ignorance concerning the pathology of Asperger's (or in Larry's eyes - the Aerogel of the confabulation of the societally ignorant psychiatrists) is quite profound.</i><br /><br />Spare me. What I am not ignorant of is whatever the pathology of Asperger's, the challenges faced by someone who can come up with phrases like the 'confabulation of the societally ignorant psychiatrists' are orders of magnitude less profound than the challenges of someone whose ear drum bursts because they do not understand the concept of communicating their state in ways other than crying or biting. <br /><br />Any nuanced and poignant response you write will simply prove my point. From a hierarchy of needs perspective, one can only worry about a 'of the societally ignorant psychiatrists' if you understand those concepts. Those are the problems I wish my son could be able to understand. <br /><br /><i>The 'show me where it hurts' issue frequently crops-up in the Asperger's part of the Spectrum, although I haven't the patience skilfully weave the multitudinous threads of this argument - Larry can do it since he's the professional here.</i><br /><br />Jesus Christ, you guys are so interested in the fuzzy and the confabulations it's no wonder you can't comprehend the problems of someone who truly <i>cannot communicate</i>. I've got news for you, Socrates. <i>You can communicate</i>. It's true. If you had an ear ache, <i>you could find a way to let someone know before your ear drum burst</i>. You'd probaby could write a multitudinous, and bitingly sarcastic blog posting about it. You likely could point to a picture of what hurt if someone put a picture of a body in front of you, or point to your ear if someone asked you where it hurt, or maybe you could nod your head if someone said, 'does your ear hurt?'. <br /><br />Asperger's is hard. OK. But the challenges faced as undescribably less severe than a child who truly does not understand abstract concepts like the ability to nod their head yes or no to a question. If you don't believe this is the case, you might reconsider the wisdom of throwing around accusations of profound ignorance.<br /><br />- pDpassionlessDronehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05398721312156704738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-8283132927055355092010-09-28T18:43:14.556-04:002010-09-28T18:43:14.556-04:00No MJ you would not get the bit about CP and pride...No MJ you would not get the bit about CP and pride, that is because never mind the autism, that's irrelevant, it is different worlds, the world of disability and impairment as normality and what you are used to.<br /><br />I am blessed by living with alternate humanity, never mind all the misconceptions about autism you really need to start listening to disabled people and disabled culture, it's an eye opener, and in fact it could be your own salvation, because consider it, you are only temporarily able bodied and of so called sound mind. It is the riddle of the sphinx.<br /><br />If for example pain is so fearful for you, you are not going to cope very well if it hits you.<br /><br />I was considered disabled before I was diagnosed with an ASD.<br /><br />Autism is only one small part of the experience of "disability."<br /><br />I don't think a lot of posters really ever consider where they actually stand, and look with such security on what is mere illusion.<br /><br />Passionless I don't think you really know much at all beyond your projection about levels of funtioning and the complexity of it all.<br /><br />I have been in that different world for longer than most parents have considered themselves to be. <br /><br />It's not an alternative or choice it's what I have lived, mine and others impairments and the relationship of that to one an other and survival.<br /><br />I don't think you would really want my life, but then none of have any choice and that is the point, nothing to argue about, get on with it.Larry Arnold PhD FRSAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05074432718592268750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-74398437349469435552010-09-28T18:26:59.051-04:002010-09-28T18:26:59.051-04:00Hi the author -
In other words Passionless, you ...Hi the author - <br /><br /><i>In other words Passionless, you have practically admitted to deciding that you are the ultimate arbiter of what autism is from your own observations.</i><br /><br />No. I am merely stating that there are profound differences in functioning that make the application of the same label preposterous. I really could care less about the label autism per se, but the reality is that the public at large has time to understand simple stuff; autism is about as nuanced as they can get. Given that, it makes no sense to group people with such wildly different capacities together. <br /><br />Maybe children like my son need a different label. In that case, people who are proud to have Aspbergers can do all the crooning they want about how great it is, it won't effect how dollars and attitudes are shifted towards someone who faces the challenges my son faces. <br /><br />I could care less about Kanner, Asperger, labels, which DSM we are on, which DSM we will have later, and the rest of that. <br /><br />As for the rest of your post, I honestly can't tell if you were addressing a point I tried to make, or were just typing stuff. <br /><br />- pDpassionlessDronehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05398721312156704738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-47862321131253980112010-09-28T17:58:21.272-04:002010-09-28T17:58:21.272-04:00Author,
I don't think that pD is attempting t...Author,<br /><br />I don't think that pD is attempting to set up himself up as the ultimate authority about autism is or isn't. He is simply talking about distinctions between the different severities of autism. <br /><br />I happen to agree with what he is saying.<br /><br />You seem to be confusing the ideas of scientific inquiry with the specifics of a clinical definition. You can't say that someone isn't being open minded about a clinical definition - a definition is what it is. <br /><br />Now, you might be trying to say that the clinical definition of autism is only an approximation of what autism "really" is, but that is really a just an excuse to do exactly what you are saying pD is doing - defining what autism is or isn't. And saying that you take nothing for granted is the same as saying that you want to be able to say anything and everythinag is autism. At that point, you might want to start using the proper terminology and replace the word "autism" with "human".<br /><br />Autism is a useful label to describe a set of behaviors , it is not some abstract thing to be "discovered" via the scientific process. Some people have more of these behaviors than others and some of these differences can be quantified. As pD said, there is a large quantifiable difference between a child that has problem with very basic communication and someone like Fjelsted who takes to the internet to pontificate about why she is fundamentally better than the ones who can't talk.<br /><br />As for taking pride in having a medical condition like CP, I just don't get that. I can understand taking pride in who you are, what you do, or what you have managed to accomplish but to take pride in the fact that you have a medical condition? That makes no sense. <br /><br />People are people, not medical conditions.M.J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12033918835169823548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1892134081049774386.post-44694106873842181842010-09-28T11:53:44.077-04:002010-09-28T11:53:44.077-04:00I'm surprised to see Naseem Taleb crop-up here...I'm surprised to see Naseem Taleb crop-up here given his take on autism - and given his patent colour-blindness.<br /><br />pD, your ignorance concerning the pathology of Asperger's (or in Larry's eyes - the Aerogel of the confabulation of the societally ignorant psychiatrists) is quite profound.<br /><br />The <i>'show me where it hurts'</i> issue frequently crops-up in the Asperger's part of the Spectrum, although I haven't the patience skilfully weave the multitudinous threads of this argument - Larry can do it since he's the professional here.<br /><br />MJ., In that case the "aspies" need to fuck right off. I mean really, they need to fuck-off and leave the grown-ups to get on with the important business at hand.<br /><br />Their propaganda has done as much harm as Autism Speak's - two bunches of tossers talking crap.Socrateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12525104555859213125noreply@blogger.com